Tithing

One thing that really jerks my chain is the teaching of Tithing in Churches and how money centered they are. Also all that crap about sowing and reaping. Yes Paul used sowing and reaping as an example to say you get what you give, but many in Churchianity are obsessed with money. Heres my issue

1) Tithing is NOT commanded in the new testament

2) Tithing as it is in Churchianity is not biblical at all. You should read up on the OT type of tithing. Its far different then the way people do it now

3) We are not cursed. We are under Christ but people love to quote Malachi to say were cursed.

4) God does not teach we should be rich.

5) Tithing as it is now is nothing but taxation.

My main problem is I have yet to find a Church (with the exception of Church of Christ which I take issue with because they think they are the only ones not gonna roast in hell) that doesnt try to shove the tithing garbage down my throat. I understand they need money, but the guilt tripping and scripture manipulation is sick.

I will not tithe out of obligation ever. I will only give as I feel led. That could be none or it could be a hell of a lot more than a tithe.

Take your tithe tax and stick it, Churchianity. If it was so freaking important, Jesus would have had a lot to say about it

Inerrancy

I have been wrestling with the topic of Biblical Inerrancy. At a young age it was engrained into me that the Bible was the Word of God. It says it, you do it, no questions asked. I remember when I was 13 right after I became a Christian being so upset as to be in tears because I ran into a contradiction in the Bible. When I was about 14 my mom started studying how the canon came about and started to pick and choose what books to accept. I rolled with that for a while. Then came my Churchianity days where it was back to the Bible is inerrant and if it contradicts, well we just dont get it.

The real issue I have now is not so much with contradictions or the perception thereof. My faith is stronger than that, but rather the use of proof texts or as I call them "Bible bombs" to justify hideous things. In the past people used them to justify slavery. Now its subordination of women, war, capititalism, etc. That has brought me back to this.

1) Why do we accept what is in the Bible. I have no issue with the Gospels and most of the OT.

2) Who were these old Catholics who decided which books to take and which ones to leave. I have read some apocryphal books and think they are interested and Bible like. Who were these people and why do we take their word for what should be in the canon.

3) Why is Paul's every word and opinion used as doctrine. Paul was a man and was in my mind quite opinionated. He was a good man, but why should his opinion that women should not teach be authoritative anymore than something Brian McLaren or Rick Warren says. They say some good things. I am not necessarily saying Paul shouldnt be in the Bible, but I think his works are the most abused of anyone to justify things. He even said in some places "I not the Lord"

4) Why do Fundamentalists stick to the doctrine that the Earth is only 6000 years old. The Bible doesnt say that and I fail to see that in Genesis. I think millions of years passed between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2

5) I wanna puke when people quote the end of Revelation about adding to or taking away from this book. That refers to the book of Revelation. Do Churchianity people really believe God rained the Bible out of the sky. It must have happend in 1611 when the Authorized King James Bible fell from heaven.

I am interested in your thoughts here. I am not trying to rattle anyones faith. Most of the perceived contradictions are fairly irrelevent. I think we need a better answer than just ignore problems and they go away. I would like to hear what my new friends have to say on this topic. I have yet to have an intelligent conversation with a Church leader on this issue.

I started a topic on the Ooze about it but it digressed to mindless bickering. Though they pointed me to some good reading material.

God Bless. Peace and Love to all

Boundaries

I have noticed since moving to Oregon that most people here dont understand boundaries. The management at my work has no hesitation to call me on my cell phone on Sundays to ask questions. People on the street walk up and ramble nonsense at you. One guy digs through our dumpster every day. Not only have I noticed that the people in this state are very strange, but they dont understand boundaries. They get right in your face and your business. Dont tell me "you have never lived in a big city or a small town". I have lived in a tiny farm town in Minnesota as well as Minneapolis, Denver and the DC area. I am well familiar with big city vs small town culture. I am beginning to think that Oregon is where people move when the rest of the country wont take them. Not to mention that where I work there are no people near my age but a crapload of old people. Its like someone left the door open at the nursing home. Not to mention the inbred rednecks and the new age/cultic nuts.

I try to approach these nutjobs with the love of Christ, but being around them has made me hardended burnt out and almost non-caring. I hope I die before I become like the people I see every day.

Oh and if you are thinking of moving to Oregon, its an OK place, but the Coast should have a sign that reads "A great place to get old and die"

I admit it, I have such a problem with old people now that I dont want to attend a Church thats full of them. Most Churches have lots of them.

At times, secretly, I think that Euthanasia in the Soylent Green kind of way (minus eating them) might not be a bad idea.

Someone please tell me Im f'd up

Gerald Ford is Dead

Just in case nobody knew, Gerald Ford passed away yesterday. I think he was one of the misunderstand presidents. Nobody knew much of him. I feel for the family. I think he was probably a good man. I hope he is in a better place

Nonsense

I am not sure what to make of things of late. After reading a New Kind of Christian, I tend to agree with Brian McLarens points. I have no interest in attending a normal Church or being part of Churchianity. I feel so distanced from religion. I even told a friend today that I am not interested in going back to Church. Not cause my beliefs have changed but because of the fakeness. In some ways I hope to find in Emergent an authenticity that I have found in a small online community of friends (SCP, Dorsey, Senor Jefe, Zeke, Ninjanun, and others). I found people who feel the way I do. In Church I find no such thing. However I cannot help but feel isolated and like I am missing out.

I have even gone so far as to question basic doctrines (no not the Deity of Christ, but the innerancy of scripture). I see no harm in asking the questions. I just fear Churchianity may make them disappear since it has no answer.

I am not saying that I dont believe the Bible. I am simply saying that people go too far with it.

I am also to the point that I see Republicanism is almost totally incompatible with true Christianity. I must commend McLaren on his antiwar stance. He is almost pacifist which is quite a stand for an Emergent guy to take since Emergents stand for nothing a lot of the time.

I guess I dont know who I am anymore. if you know, please tell me.

Not much to say

I been doing a lot of boring but normal things lately. got a loan, got a new (new to me) truck, stuff like that.

I also been reading a New Kind of Christian by Brian McLaren and so far I thinks its very good. I am not sure I want to totally jump on the emergent bandwagon, but I think a lot of people in that conversation share my beliefs and pain. I guess I could be considered a friend of Emergent, but I dont want that to become who I am. I am me, and others are along for the ride.

Emergent, Acts29, Sexism, Church, and rambling thoughts

I been exploring the Emergent Conversation on line and learned a lot about it. I find a lot of their ideas to be good. I question the financial avenues of Emergent as an organization and I think Brian McLaren gets a bit new agey at times, but I think their hearts are in the right place for the most part. I dont think they should be bashed by people like Ingrid at the Slice of Laodecia who impresses me as a dogmatic bible blasting fanatic who needs to chill

I also must say that I been reading up on Mars Hill and beware. Mark Driscoll is not Emergent. he is the founder of a very sexist and very conservative movement called Acts29. I am not condemning these people, but I must say that they embrace many of the values that Emergent people would loathe. I ran into a Church back in 2003 in Mount Vernon Washington called the Gathering. I got into a severe online argument with a few women who think women should submit and stay at home. Now I find out that Church was an Acts29 plant. It no longer exists. My only contact with them was online. I never went there. I think if the Emergent Church wants to make its mark, it needs to make sure not to fall into the false traditions of men regarding the role of women. Another thing about the Gathering I noticed is they were republicans.

Whatever label you bear, realize YOU ARE THE CHURCH if you are a Christ follower. You dont need to be part of Emergent, Acts29, or any orginization.

I am probably going to visit an Emergent Cohort in Salem to see what its like. That doesnt mean I am a follower of Tony Jones or Brian McLaren. I am a follower of Christ.

I think if I can find a Church that isnt really a Church, that can satisfy my wifes need to be in a Church while not making me want to puke with a big load of Churchianity.

We may end up goign to a real Church, but my heart is not in that decision.

The place I want to check out meets in a coffee house and its in Salem Oregon. http://www.emergenttvalley.blogspot.com

I will doc up my review of it. They dont meet until the 1st Thurs in Jan.

Regardless, I want to meet a group of Christians who will tolerate that I am Egalitarian (think women can do anything man can do), a free thinker, pacifist, and NOT A REPUBLICAN. Many issues I have no stance on because I am unlearning what I know and trying to see what is in the Bible.

I am a Christ Follower and a Christian, but I am not a Churchtian.

Peace and Love and God Bless You

Happy Thanksgiving

Just wanted to wish all my readers (all 1 or 2 of you) a very Happy Thanksgiving. May you all be blessed and eat too much turkey. I know I did

Dirty Little Secrets

Here I am at 11:00AM on a Sunday. I should be in Church, right? Well whatever. Anyway, I just watched a music video by a band called the All American Rejects. The song was called Dirty Little Secret. I dont make a habit of watching videos, they are hardly on anymore.

This video was interesting. While the band played the song, all kinds of people held up little handwritten cards exposing their dirty little secrets. One flashed by that said "I had gay sex at a church camp", Another said, "I only love two of my children" One said "I miss feeling close to God". Several were meaningful. Some were dumb, like "I pee in the sink" and "I like the smell of my own poop". Interesting enough, most of the people's faces were hidden.


What I took from this rather interesting video is a perspective. We are all hiding ourselves from others. This is probably most true in Churchianity. I think the band knows this when they made the reference to gay sex at a church camp.

Imagine for a minute that Ted Haggard was standing in front of his congregation or on national TV holding a sign that said "I had sex with a gay prostitute" or "I bought meth today" How many people would still follow him.

Jesus sees our secrets. We might as well walk into the Church with big signs plastered on our face. I think I will try it. I will try and think of a terrible fault of mine, put it on a shirt and walk into a Church and see what happens. Maybe I will not shower for a few days too and wear clothes with holes in them. Maybe I will guzzle a couple of 40s before I walk in. Point is, in the true Church, the guy who walks in with a sign in his hand that says "I am gay, I had an abortion, and I voted AGAINST BUSH" should be welcomed the same way, that the Rev Dr Richard Fuzzywinkle would be.

Wow this is scary, I got more out of a video by a secular band than I get out of some Church services.

Another kind of divide

This is another thing I thought about on my way to work this morning. I was listening to an old Godscrum podcast. Zeke was interviewing a guy named Eric who is a gay Christian. I am not going to touch on the whole gay issue here. Just a reference point. They were discussing how outcast gays are in the Church. This made me think about something. In my Churchianity days, I was always disturbed by the attitude within the Church that inside are the "holy people" out outside are the "filthy sinners". People who visited the Church if they didnt come back must be "filthy sinners" and we needed to pray them back in. If you dont go to Church, you must be falling away. The guilt with that was always unbearable even though inside, I never bought into it.

People in Churches (or more accurately whatever service you happen to be at) are not the holy and everyone not there are not filthy sinners.

Truthfully we are all filthy sinners. We have all done bad things and sinned. I no longer believe in levels of sin (well for the most part). I also dont think the condemnation of those not in the building is healthy to anyone. It creates this dichotomy. The people in the Church are us and everyone else is them. God loves us all. In or out of the Church.

Not only is there a divide between the sacred and the secular in the sense of vocation, but there is an even bigger divide between those in the Church and those out of the Church.

I think the cardinal sins of Churchianity as it is are as follows:

Gay People having abortions
Not voting republican
Tolerance
Missing Church

Everything else is no big deal. After all. we are all sinners. Thats what Churchianity says when they sin. Its that do as a I say not as a I do.

F them all. Oh and God Bless everyone. No exceptions.

The Great Divide

I am well versed in the great divide between the sacred and the secular. Partially because from the time I was a small child, I was told by my mom and others that I had a "call of God" on my life. As a teenager, I was a fanatical bible thumping holy roller that thought everyone else was headed for hell. I was so spiritual. At least I thought I was, Yes I had a good walk with God but the benefits were offset by the strangeness of the Church I was in and the people I was around. My dream was to attend Jimmy Swaggart Bible College and become, well just like Jimmy Swaggart. Regardless, I drifted away from this and I guess I had my first Church detox back then. Part of it happend with JS found his hooker and I realized he wasnt the man I thought he was. I was a Christian but didnt go to Church anymore. I had problems and didnt act very Pious. I am not justifying some of what I did, but later, wow later did I get guilt tripped when I returned to the Church. They got my life back on track to being a good church boy.

During my unchurched days (first time around), I grew up and became a Computer Tech/IT person just like my dad. I became good at this and acquired a lot of experience in the field. Once I returned to Church, there was that "call of God" so I became obsessed with getting back on track to the ministry career that I once dreamed of. I started to feel like a total failure in life for being a good computer guy. I am more than a computer guy, but unless I could be "in the ministry" I was not worth much to God.

I went down this path by taking correspondence Bible classes and being a yes man to any ministry they wanted to throw my way. I became a leader of leaders in children/youth ministry. I was starting to bring them in. I taught Sunday school. My wife got involved in all kinds of ministry. We felt like we were "right with God" All I needed to do was be good at ministry get experience change careers and I would be a success. Then I could get away from my evil secular job and do what God wanted me to do full time.

Well we moved to Oregon in 2003. At that time, we left all that. Tried to make it happen here but it wasnt the same. I got very depressed and disillusioned.

Anyway, some of this you know from previous posts, but I am trying to tie it all together.

I have or am detoxing once again even though I will be forced to go through the empty motions of doing Church for my wifes sake. But now I realize, I am not a nobody just because I am not "in the ministry". God is using me right where I am. I can be more effective now that my mind is clearing up from Churchianity and realizing that a lot of it was lies.

The whole secular vs sacred thing is a lie thought up by people. I was reading a blog that has a bunch of Yaconelli's works on it and he said it so perfectly. Now I cant remember exactly what he said, so I wont try to quote, but it went to the heart.

All you people out there who are free thinking people who have a heart for people and want to really do what Jesus said are the real Church.

Screw the established Church. They can all F off. However, for some it is good. But Churchianity, you have harmed me in a way that only the true Christ can fix

to church Again?

Well we went again. Now before you jump to conclusions that I am returning the world of churchianity, understand that my wife is about to attend a Christian college. this will require her to be part of a church. I am going kicking and screaming but we went to one this Sunday and I must say it wasnt too bad. I am willing to give it a chance, but that doesnt mean I am ready to suck the big nipple of Church forever. I have seen the light and can never return to what I was. Attending church doesnt mean I have to be churchianity. I am part of the true Church anyway. I will probably go to be alongside my wife and who knows, I may get some good stuff out of it, however, I will never again blindly follow a Pastor. Also I will NEVER be a republican again. Always a free thinker. If I had my way, I would not attend Church at all, but I guess I gotta make the best of it. I guess I am a wuss in the eyes of some. If it affects me, I will detox once again

Elections

I am both elated and sickened by the election results. As a recovering rebublican, I understand the level of mind control and deception that takes place in the world of Churchianity to be a repiblican. To the point that to be anything else means you are heading for H-E- double hockey sticks.

My views on the war and the rupublicans have changed completely since 2004, so I am glad to see that change is in the air.

The disturbing thing is how trendy it is to not like the reepublickins and to be antiwar. I started to go this way, but because I see how anti God moneygrubbing and warmongering is. I think the reason the Democraps took over is not because of this, but because its trendy now.

I am also sickened by how fast people in this country will turn on what they love whether right or wrong because people tell them too. We live in a country of lemmings controlled by Hollywood and prominient Evangelicals. Free thinking is not allowed most of the time.

Oh and yes, I misspelled republican and democrat on purpose. Well I did it by accident the 1st time but thought it was cool so I kept on doing it.

Haggard again

OK. Now Haggard admits he is a liar and a deceiver and has stepped down. If this is from the heart, then this is the first step in his repentance and restoration.

I guess the Christians of the world can go light on the tar and feathers now. Though I still think Haggard being a deceiver and a liar hurt Christianity more than most will ever know. Though that is forgivable and if he is repentent in his heart, God will forgive. That doesnt mean he should be restored to his authority. The dude did a bad bad thing

Haggard again

OK. Now Haggard admits he is a liar and a deceiver and has stepped down. If this is from the heart, then this is the first step in his repentance and restoration.

I guess the Christians of the world can go light on the tar and feathers now. Though I still think Haggard being a deceiver and a liar hurt Christianity more than most will ever know. Though that is forgivable and if he is repentent in his heart, God will forgive. That doesnt mean he should be restored to his authority. The dude did a bad bad thing

Idiots

I know I am jumping the gun here because its only preliminary results but I dont get it. Why in a state that is liberal would the people overwhelmingly defeat measure 42. Measure 42 was a measure to ban the use of credit reports to determine insurance rates. The people opposing it were spending lots of money to oppose it and they were the greedy insurance companies. Big business. How much more freaking republican can you get.

this is a state that has legalized medical marijuana, doctor assisted suicide and is voting no for parentaly notifications for abortion. I am not making statements on these issues except that these are traditional democrat/liberal views.

This measure 42 thing just proves that people are idiots and will vote however their TV tells them to

Train Wreck

This post relates to an issue that happend this morning. I was rudely awakened by a call from my mother who lives about a mile from me. Her house is next to a train track and apparently a train derailed practically in her front yard. Some of you may say so what but I gotta say that I believe God was looking out for her. It did not hit her house. She lost electricity and was a bit shaken up, but thats it. The Albany police were really mean and wouldnt let me get to her house which really pissed me off. but the firemen were nice so I am over it. Here are some pictures of the train wreck and a link to the story. It may not be a big deal to anyone else, but its probably the biggest thing thats happend to this family for a while. I feel bad for the people across the street. It hit their house and crushed their minivan but Thank God (and I really mean that) nobody was hurt. Not even the people on the train.

Here is a link to the story on Northwest Cable News web site

Worlds Largest Vending Machine

Haggard

Oh No. I cant believe this. I think there is a special place in Hell for the modern day pharisees. What the hell. I mean this guy was one of the religious rights spokesmen. a pious gaybashing conservative and hes out having gay sex and taking meth. Yeah sure he didnt use it. He just wanted to know what buying meth feels like. Yeah and Clinton didnt inhale. Sure.

I believe he could be forgiven, but he would have to be repentent. Not covering it up. If Christian leaders dont tar and feather this guy, they are giving the real Jesus another twist of the crown of thorns. I am so sick of these hypocrites ruining the faith I adhere to. This is stupid. How many people will walk away from Christianity because of this pharisee. I say, kick his ass out and publicly condemn him.

Truth

If you look up Wikipedia's definition of truth it says "Common dictionary definitions of truth mention some form of accord with fact or reality. There is, however, no single definition of truth about which scholars agree, and numerous theories of truth continue to be widely debated. Differing opinions exist on such questions as what constitutes truth, how to define and identify truth, what roles do revealed and acquired knowledge play, and whether truth is subjective, relative, objective, or absolute. This article introduces the various perspectives and claims."

In this day and age, I guess I would expect no better. People dont know what is true or even what truth is. People invent what is true to them. I am a GenXer and I am influenced by postmodern thought. This has messed with my theology in a bad way, however, I believe that what I believe to be true is truth. If nothing is true, how we do know we are even really here. People can debate on whether the Bible is true. I am not going to waste my time. I choose to believe it is. I also believe it must be interpreted correctly. (whole other discussion). In a world that doesnt believe in truth, how can one find peace and hope. How can one know that what they believe is right. This defies logic and goes to what I call a self evident truth.

A self evident truth is one that is so obvious only a fool would doubt it. You are alive, I hope that is self evident. Nature is real (though some people believe its not). I guess what I am trying to do here is not tell you what is true, but encourage you to search your heart to see what truths are self evident in your mind. Then you will at least know what truth is. Then we can argue/debate over opinions.

If truth is relative, how do I know I am really here?

White Trash New Car

This is the kind of car I want when I grow up

Podcasts

WooHoo We now have a Podcast. Here is the feed for it. http://feeds.feedburner.com/spiritbear/truth4dummies

Plop it into Juice or your favorite Podcast receiver and listen.

Its gonna be something. Not sure what, but something

I went to Church Today

I went to Church today and observed the following.

1) Gods presence was in the place so I cannot condemn the sincerity of the people.

2) The people were welcoming and friendly

3) Salvation was preached.

4) There were people there under the age of 65.

That is the good.

Other things I noticed that bugged me a bit:

1) The demographic was not representative of this area. In the Albany area the largest age group is 25-44. Less than 20% is over 65. In this Church, about 50% appeared to be over 65. A Church with an older demographic than the community is not representing the community correctly

2) There was some doctrine I didnt agree with. This is OK though. Not worth a fight

3) Everyone that greeted us seemed overly concerned about the visitor card. Like Steve and Josh said, Churches are obsessed with that info. Now it bugs me.

4) They are having a trendy harvest party. Why does that bug me. Well for one thing, masking what Halloween is in order to sanitize it for Church seems wrong. Also God had a festival called the feast of harvest. Better known as Pentecost. It would be an abomination to confuse Pentecost and Halloween. This problem is less specific to this Church and more to Churchianity in general and their harvest parties.

Overall I would say that this Church visit was worth it and was uplifting. However, I am still not sure I want to be obligated to do this every Sunday.

Now I plan to do something I consider almost as if not more spiritual than Church. If they rain will stay away, we are going to the woods.

Confused in Oregon

i am not sure who I am anymore. For years I was a churchgoer and a leader. I thought the Republicans were the way to go. Now I see that its all been a lie. Not God but Churchianity. I want to take some time off and have as a result of moving to another town in Oregon. I really really wish that I could find myself before going back but my wife wants to return to Church. I am turned off by the false teaching, the piety, the feelings of guilt and the money grubbing.

I think Ninjanun said it great in a podcast of Stupid Church People. She said something to the effect of (not a quote) that when you are in leadership in a Church, you feel that you are doing something for God and when you arent, you feel unimportant.

The last 3.5 years of my life have been like this. After leaving a Church where I was a leader (not paid staff, but a leader nontheless), and going back to being just a regular person made me almost die. I felt worthless and if I couldnt "get in the ministry" I should just die. I am over it now, but I still struggle.

Hey Ninjanun, if you read this, I want you to know that what you said was inspired and went straight to the heart. I am the guy who emailed you recently with my story. I hope you get it.

Steve and Josh, I would love to talk to you guys sometime.

All of you may God Bless You and Keep You as you journey toward him in Church or out of it.

Peace and Love and all that Good Stuff.

Spiritbear

WTF?

This is my first post under this name. Truth for Dummies is just a name. I almosted called it Alethia but then people would think I was gay or a female which I am neither. I almost did it anyway but Alethia was taken. Alethia is the greek work for truth.

Is everything here true? Not likely but I cover 2 of my favorite topics, truth and human stupidity.
I am not gonna tell you much here, but stay tuned. If you like Stupidchurchpeople, you might like this.

Steve and Josh, you guys inspired me. Way to go!!!!!!!!
You too Ninjanun.