I was at Roth's yesterday. Its a grocery store in Independence Oregon for the benefit of my fellow Oregonians. I saw a book there with a title that intrigued me so much I bought it. The book is called "7 Biblical Truths you want here in Church but might change your life". Its by David Rich. Since it was published by Harvest House of Eugene I thought why not. I have enjoyed other books they publish. well it started off kind of cool until I got the chapter called "Dead People cant help themselves". This was disturbing. It touches on predestination and election but goes so far as to say that God chooses who will become saved and who wont. In other words he says, this one for heaven, this one is gonna burn.
I have a real problem with a God that created people just to stoke up his bonfire down under. I have read the Bible many times and yes it speaks of election and I believe we cannot become Christians totally on our own. However I dont believe God made anyone to perish. Honestly I am not sure I even believe that everyone who is not a Christian in this life is automatically gonna burn. God is love. I believe he gives people second third fourth chances etc. this may sound like heresy to some but I think the Hyper-Calvinistic belief of God choosing who to save and who to roast is sick and disturbing. I honestly wouldnt want to serve a God that got pleasure out of making human marshmallows out of people for sick fun.
I believe God LOVES everyone and if there is a literal hell, everyone has the power to choose not to go there.
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7 comments:
that is what offends me most about christianity.... religion in general. the idea that this loving god created us, loves us unconditionally, yet would be fine destroying us. that isn't love. that's just religious dogma gone wild.
personally, i believe in freedom and free will. and i certainly do not wish to spend eternity with any being or any god who loves and destroys in the same breath. no thank you. i'll create my own heaven with other like-minded souls.
Boy, I sure hope you are practicing what you preach, Nina.
I hope if you have kids that you NEVER utter even the slightest correction or discipline to them, either verbal or physical. Or, if you don't have children, that when you do you will NEVER partake in ANYTHING corrective to their nature.
I think we all have seen the human children who go totally unbridled. They are tasmanian devils, even at a young age.
And the animalistic rabidness of New Orleans in the wake of Katrina shows us what unbridled adult human nature brings about.
You also obviously don't ponder the notion that love has a thousand faces, not all of which are soft, ooey-gooey, passive and permissive.
Enjoy your anarchistic fairy tale dreams. You've got a very naive view of human nature, and God.
oh, come on. there is a HUGE difference between disciplining a child in need and destroying that child.
there is a HUGE difference in being assertive or even aggressive with another adult and pulling out a gun or other weapon and destroying them.
can you get that through your religiously-controlled brain? can you get that concept? love doesn't destroy. hate does. fear does. pain does.
i'm certainly not naive. i know the ugliness of human behavior. i'm talking about that unconditional love that is god. it seems as though you have been a victim of church brainwashing.
Love does sometimes destroy. And love sometimes does kill.
You're unable to digest any face of love which is not dainty and fleece-lined.
It's one of the grand stumbling blocks, purposely placed in the path.
"Love does sometimes destroy. And love sometimes does kill"
Wow that sounds like a statement a terrorist would utter before he blows himself up. John, I am not implying you are a terrorist just that that was a harsh statement.
This has turned heated. I like to see some good debate.
In the middle lies the truth
I beleive that allour concepts of fairness and justice come from God because every single human being comes equipped with a sense of right and wrong...now, if I being a human with shortcomings and failing understand fairness, how much more fair and right is God in how he operates, the originator of these concepts to begin with....I don't worry about this anymore because I trust God to be just and good.
well, just a tad bit of backdrop. I walked with God for some years a while back.
And I'm not talking intellectually assent to words in a book (bible or otherwise) or "morals". I saw a human leg grow in length right before my eyes, saw a friend within hours of death get up off their death bed while Hospice stood there gawking and then packed their bags and left. Saw a nine-year old boy hit by a car at 30mph, get thrown 50 feet into the grass and not have one broken bone in his body, no concussion, no nothing. A good friend of mine saw a man raised from the dead at the scene of a car accident. This was all in the United States, not "I heard about a missionary in Africa who said..."
I'm talking the real gospel, not this 'gospel of words' as I refer to this fucking bullshit that is now the norm. I fully affirm Nina's skepticism. All Nina's seen/seeing is a bunch of mamby-pamby nonsense. And I think the Church, with it's powerless b.s., does largely nothing to counter the skepticism.
So anyway, after all this, after tasting the real deal I totally turned my back on The Man. For twelve years. It got so bad I told Him near the end of that to go screw Himself. That I had zero interest anymore in His way, regardless of what I'd seen and been a part of before, and He should just write me off. I told Him "You go Your way, I'll go mine." Fuck it all, fuck Him.
So what happened? He zipped His pants up the front and showed me He's not a fucking Mr. Rogers-ish, soft, dainty glob of milktoast. He slobberknocked the everliving fuck out of me. Blistered my ass to hell. He could have offed me, and He would have been in a good frame of mind to do so.
Call it brainwashing all you want. I have two legs of equal length now for over twenty years. That leg growing before my own eyes was mine. Jesus talks of God as a father. Yeah, He is my father. I've got the blisters and scars to prove it.
What ought to be called brainwashing is this shit being taught for the last 30 years, that all God (if He exists) is concerned about is blessing the fuck out of His kids and changing their God damn diapers every time they cry to Him about something, cleaning up their shit. He's whipped my ass more than these words can express, and I'm better for it. And btw, if it matters, He's fucking tired of changing diapers.
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